The Slayer Hunting Podcast
The Slayer Hunting Podcast
Episode 6: Hunting dog tips and insights from Ron Boehme
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Ron Boehme has been a judge for the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association for 25 years and is the creator of The Hunting Dog Podcast. He’s an expert when it comes to knowing which breeds work best in the field and what qualities hunters should look for in a canine hunting companion.
Born and raised on the south side of Chicago, Ron wasn’t introduced to hunting and gun culture until he was a teenager. However, his passion for the sport quickly blossomed, and it wasn’t long before he began searching for the perfect hunting dog. Through trial and error, Ron’s discovered some of the most important secrets to identifying the best breed and dogs, which he shares in his popular podcast.
Today, Ron is recording his eighth season of The Hunting Dog Podcast. Over the years, he’s interviewed hunters from around the world about their breeds, the game laws in their area and training tips. He’s brought on representatives from Pheasants Forever and Ruffed Grouse Society to talk about habitat and forest restoration and grass restoration. But he says the common thread of his interviews and each episode is that every person he talks to is a “dog person.”
In this episode of The Slayer Hunting Podcast, you’ll hear about Ron’s background, as well as his insights and tips for selecting and training the right hunting dog for you.
Follow Ron Boehme and The Hunting Dog Podcast on Instagram: @thehuntingdogpodcast
Get your bird dog fix on Slayer Calls:
- Why I Duck Hunt: The magic and grace of labrador retrievers at work
- Think You Have Hunting Fortitude? Wait ’til You Meet Hayden.
Check out The Hunting dog Podcast:
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Bill Ayer:
Hey y'all, welcome to the Slayer Podcast. I'm your host, Bill Ayer, owner of Slayer Duck Calls, a company founded on family heritage, unrivaled quality craftsmanship, and an uncontrollable obsession for hunting. Let's get to it.
Bill Ayer:
All right. We're here with the Slayer Podcast. Today, we have Ron with The Hunting Dog Podcast on. How you doing, Ron?
Ron:
Not bad. How are you, Bill?
Bill Ayer:
I'm doing great. Just been doing a lot of hunting this last couple months, and season's got a couple weeks left, so I'm going to try to get in as much as I can before it comes to the end. So how about you? What have you been up to?
Ron:
Well, I've been contemplating hiring somebody to cut firewood for me basically. It's just that time of year in Michigan, nothing's open. And I mean, I think we've got a late goose season coming here, but I'm also to the point where I'm not going to lay out in a blizzard for a goose, but I love early goose season. So unless I... I got one trip coming to Brays Island in February to go down to a plantation down there just to kind of experience it.
Ron:
And I've got an invite to go to Arizona on the 3rd of February, and I just don't know if I want to get in an airport, get in a plane, get in all that. I mean, I haven't hunted Arizona, and that's one of the few states I haven't stepped my feet in with a gun. Got a good friend that's making me a great offer, but I could almost say the season's wrapped up and it's just, for me, it's keeping the wood stove stocked and the kennel and in the house right now.
Bill Ayer:
Got it. Well, good. It sounds like we got some decisions to make. Usually when it comes to hunting for me, I always lean on, "Well, I'm going to go hunting."
Ron:
Yeah. It just depends on the warden. My warden has been my warden for 38 years and I thought I'd get more control of the prison as I got older.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
And it turns out that you got to be one of those inmates that has impeccable behavior to be given more rights, and barely it's... I'm still at the beck and call of the warden.
Bill Ayer:
There you go. Well, okay. Well, why don't you tell the audience of who you are, who Ron is, the Hunting podcast, and maybe how you got into hunting and how long you've been hunting for, and all that good stuff?
Ron:
Sure. Sure. So I started out, believe it or not... I mean, a lot of my listeners know it just from hearing me a few times, but I was born and raised on the South Side of Chicago. And if it wasn't for a friend from school whose dad took me trapshooting when I was about 15 years old, 14 or 15, I probably would've been on a bowling league to be honest with you, Bill. Didn't come up with a gun culture. My dad worked for the county. My mom was a stay-at-home mom. Didn't have any family that hunted.
Ron:
But I think you and I are similar in age at least. You got enough gray whiskers in your beard. I know you weren't born in the '70s. So I was one of those kids that watched American sportsmen and went to the barber shop and saw the magazines and the pheasants and the deer heads on the wall. And I just kind of always say, even though I was a city rat, we were always flipping over rocks. It's a real common story, I mean, whether you lived in the country or the city.
Ron:
And I was always trying to keep a snake or a bird from a nest. And I was always interested in nature. And then when I learned to shoot a shotgun, it just kind of like, my mind started to wander. And so, I was lucky enough to go hunting through that friend. Met another friend whose dad hunted. Took us with him hunting in Illinois, pheasant and rabbit. And that was probably back in... I think I got my first hunting license in '72, I think it was. And so, I started out doing that, and then I kind of recruited between the friend that got me into shooting with his dad and then the other friend whose dad took us.
Ron:
Our school friends kind of became... We actually our own little trap... Not trap club, but we went to a... It was called Downers Grove Sportsmen's Club, and we actually... We'd go there every Friday night and we shot on a league. Now, we weren't very good. You're thinking five kids about 18 years old.
Bill Ayer:
That's awesome.
Ron:
But we started meeting all those guys that had been going there. Right? So it was like meeting 20, 30 mentors. And then when you're the few young people in a crowd and you're putting yourself out there with the older guys, they kind of take you under their wing and stuff. And I'm sure you've been to a few ski clubs or trap clubs. Nowadays, it's mostly sporting clays, and somebody's always got a dog there and somebody's... The mag...
Ron:
So it was like this... It just kind of slowly built up. And I had to have a dog and I had several failed attempts at dogs, living in Illinois. And luckily, I moved out to Michigan for a work opportunity, and I've been in construction my whole life, and I moved to Michigan and I always wanted to go to Michigan. Everybody from Illinois wants to either go to Wisconsin or Michigan. I don't know what that says about Illinois. But I'm telling you, weekends, you went to Wisconsin. If you had a long weekend, you went around the lake and you went to Michigan. And I ended up meeting a couple bird hunters here on a job site and just started networking. And it was just an odd path.
Ron:
I started getting Gun Dog Magazine, like so many people did back in the day, and Upland Almanac and starting to read about going out West to hunt. Well, I needed a dog. I needed a good dog. So I had several failed attempts. I had a German shorthair that never pointed anything. I had a Gordon setter that I swear was deaf. We didn't have a... I didn't take it to the vet for a hearing test, but I did find somebody who wanted the dog, and I thought, "Oh, that was my..." I went up to the UP on a family vacation. I came home with a Gordon setter pup, and I was like, "Oh, this is harder than it looks."
Ron:
And finally, I just got my first good German shorthair from a well-known breeder in Rockford, Michigan. And then it was like, okay, now I'm like 30 years old, and now I'm like... It took really the first 15 years to get something good.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
And I've got this good dog, and then I really... It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. You meet more people from that breeder. There's a guy that lives close by me with... Obviously has a brother to the dog. We started hanging out. I started doing more of grouse hunting. Still getting lost in the woods. I'm kind of used to the prairies, and the woods threw me off for quite a bit. And then we're very lucky, kind of tying this a little, of course, to Slayer Duck Calls, this other friend of mine that I met on the job site, he took me out on the Muskegon River flats on our duck opener every year.
Ron:
And that was just flat. I don't even call... It wasn't even hunting. It was just shooting. There were so many ducks. There were so many wood ducks out on the Muskegon River flats. It's about a nine-mile flat. And we'd get out there 2:33 in the morning, take the boat as far as we could, walk farther enough to where we saw a flashlight stop telling us to keep moving, keep moving. To this day, I never heard noise like this in my life. It was for an hour on opening morning. It was just... Sounded like the finale of a fireworks show.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
So that got me hooked on some duck hunting, and now I want to get into the versatile dog world.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
And I had just enough freedom. I was kidding before we hit record that the decisions on a hunting trip, a lot of times, are still made by my wife if I can go. But I had a little easier situation in my career because I was self-employed and I worked construction and I worked around the country.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
So I got a lot, a little one and two-day hunting trips, literally all over this country. Very fortunate. I just met more people and met more people. So that's kind of where the hunting started, and it blossomed in Michigan.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah. But like you say, you bring up a good point, it never ends, because then you go for specialized breeds, pointers, or Labs, then you could do the ones that could do cross both. Right? And it never ends. It's as far as you want to take it. And then what game you're chasing and whatnot.
Ron:
Yeah. It's a good thing it was dogs and guns instead of drugs, because I would've been all in. I would've been all in, whatever you turned me on to. I was like, "Ah, that's fun!"
Bill Ayer:
Yeah. When you said you were going to the sporting clay or trap range on Friday nights, that's probably the best place for you, right?
Ron:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Bill Ayer:
When you're 18 years old on a Friday night.
Ron:
Yeah. I mean, that was great. We'd catch up with people later on. But I mean, as an example of how kind of strange we were for where I lived, on our senior class trip, most kids went down to... I think it was somewhere off of Galveston, Texas, or they'd go to Florida. Right? It's the big spring break.
Bill Ayer:
Yup.
Ron:
Everybody underage figures out where they can get their beer from. And me and my friends went... We looked at a magazine and we planned to go boar hunting in Tennessee. We went to a place called Caryonah Hunting Lodge and hunted boar with a guide and dogs. Yeah. Yeah. There isn't anything you can't attract me to, at least as long as there's a gun involved with it.
Bill Ayer:
That's awesome.
Ron:
Yeah. You're right. Nice. Found love with the duck hunting. I've already been in love with the grouse hunting. So I wanted to get a German wirehaired pointer because I read that they could do it all. Right? I'm like, "Well, yeah, they can." It's certainly a dog that can do both things well. And I'm sure, in your hunting background, if you're really a waterfowler, you need a Lab or a Chessie, in my opinion.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
But boy, we would try. We get out early season with this wirehair, and he was really good at looking for dead ducks. I mean, they're really good. I would put them up, with the training we did with them, with North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association. When it comes to looking for a cripple, you're not hamstrung. When it comes to a cold, rainy, nasty day, that wirehair wasn't hacking it.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah. Yeah.
Ron:
But yeah, I've been addicted. I mean, it's really bad. I try different breeds of dogs now. You talked about meeting some Braccos in California and said, "Yeah, that's my breed of choice, and I don't know why."
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
"I don't know why."
Bill Ayer:
They're just different. They look cool. They almost look like a bloodhound, right? And there's something about them, I don't know what it is, that attracts me too. I know it's because they're Italian, but...
Ron:
Right. Well, for me, it was a little bit of their demeanor. I actually helped a guy with a rescue. In fact, he went to Italy on an anniversary trip, saw one walking on a leash, and I don't know what city in Italy he was in. And he brought the picture back to me, and he didn't send it to me with a phone. He just literally brought me the developed film from his camera. And when I saw him, he says, "Do you know what kind of dog this is? I got to have one." I'm like, "I think so. I think I saw that in a magazine. Yeah."
Ron:
And he actually found the breed and he found one that was returned to a breeder and I helped him with it. And this dog's disposition was so silly and so goofy. And I've had hard-charging, high-powered, high-desired dogs before, and I still did to that time, and I just thought, "Well, wouldn't it be nice to have something to watch television with?" And so then I started looking for Braccos. Yeah.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
It's been a strange road. It's been a strange road.
Bill Ayer:
If it was up to my wife and I, we'd have 25 dogs. Tell me a little bit about The Hunting Dog Podcast. So that was a good recap of how you got into hunting and how you're still obsessed with it.
Ron:
Yeah.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah. Tell us about The Hunting Dog Podcast. How did you get into that? What made you get that going?
Ron:
Well, I started listening to podcasts pretty early on, spending so much time on the road. And so, I was one of the few... I would tell somebody like, "Hey, you should listen to this podcast." It'd be like History on Fire at that time, or Joe Rogan, or there was a couple of deer hunting ones out there. There was nothing in the upland world. But bottom line was, I've been lucky enough to make a few episodes of television with Steve Rinella, who most people know from the MeatEater series on Netflix and his podcast.
Ron:
And so, he worked for me after he got out of high school, all through college, after college, part-time, full-time. In fact, his brothers worked for me. And he invited me to come out and do a couple episodes over about a three-year span, and the last episode we did was actually in 2014. And he didn't have his podcast yet. And he told me after we got done hunting cranes, he said, "Hey, Ron..." And he knows me. After the day is done, I start drinking a beer. It's a wonderful habit. I'm a four o'clock guy. I like to stop at seven o'clock. I don't want to go to bed sideways, but boy, especially being in construction, it was what I did.
Ron:
And he literally come up to me and he says, "Hey Ronny," he says, "In about an hour, we're going to record a podcast. And so, don't have too many beers." I said, I thought, "Okay. All right." I said, "Where are we doing this?" And he said, "Oh, we're going to..." They're renting a house in Texas for us to stay in and the film crew. He said, "Oh, right at the kitchen table." I thought we were going to a studio or something. Right?
Ron:
I'd only listened to the ones I've listened to. I didn't realize that this was a portable mobile... Literally anybody could do this thing. And we're sitting around the kitchen table with headphones on, and his engineers or his producers, he just learned how to use this recording device, and we're all sitting there going, "Test, test, test." Okay. We just did a recap of the hunt. And the whole time we're doing this, my mind's going, "I am doing this about hunting dogs. I am doing this about hunting dogs." I don't know. Bill, do you keep a diary or a log of your hunting years?
Bill Ayer:
I'm pretty poor at it. I try to, and I get started on it and then I'll take a... It goes away and then it comes back, so it's one of those deals where it's kind of stitched together.
Ron:
Yeah. And I'm the exact same way. And I've got three different books. Once in a while for Christmas, my wife will get me a... I remember one time, she got me one from Orvis, and you could fill out the dog's name, the gun, the load you used, sunny day, cloudy day. And I thought, "This is going to get me to do it." And I think there's probably 10 pages filled out in that thing.
Ron:
So my mind is sitting there on that podcast with Steve about, how am I going to do this? And once we hung up the headphones, I said, "Steve," I said, "You're obviously in a whole different world than I am. We're still very good friends. But I've got to do this. I got to figure out, I need the name, the model of this equipment. I got to do this about hunting dogs."
Ron:
And part of my catalyst for it was, I knew enough about the internet. If I could start recording stories after a hunt with guys, and those are... I don't know how you are, Bill, but if you're a hunter, you almost got to be the same. The conversations after the hunt, fresh after the hunt, sitting on the tailgate, poking fun at each other, laughing about the dogs, laughing about missing.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
I could never write down in a diary. Even if I was good with a hunting diary, I could never get that inflection in my writing.
Bill Ayer:
Yup.
Ron:
So immediately, my first thought was, I'm going to start recording my stories from hunts and then see if I could make a podcast. That was kind of... It was like backwards. Right? I was like, "We could just record this, and then at least my kids will have it or my grandkids someday will have it." And then literally, I got home four days before Christmas, told my wife, "I don't know what you got me for Christmas, but we got to buy something right after Christmas," and bought all my recording gear and then literally figured out there's websites, how to do your own podcast. And it was... I am such a talker, as you can probably tell. It was just... It was tailor-made for me.
Ron:
And somebody calls me up these days. Now, I'm in my eighth season of the podcast. January starts my eighth year of doing the podcast. And I look forward to doing a podcast and recording a conversation with somebody just like I look forward to a hunting trip.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
To me, it gives me 50 hunts a year. It morphed into a whole lot more than just tailgate stories, when I realized I could interview fellas like Ben Williams out in Montana about his early days out there with his pointers out on the Montana prairies, and then meeting people in the industry and getting their stories. Yeah. It was totally accidental and it's turned into basically a career for me.
Bill Ayer:
That's awesome. So what could people expect when they tune into your podcast? Obviously, it's about dogs, right? Hunting dogs. But what are some of the things that people would expect to hear on that?
Ron:
Well, I would say there's something that I'm kind of known for... Not known for. There's a continuing... I like getting other trainers on and other breeders. And especially every once in a while, I can get somebody... Thanks to Facebook and Instagram, I get somebody from overseas. I've had people from Australia and Germany talking, so people could expect to find an episode.
Ron:
I could tell you, I've talked with dog handlers, dog trainers, and hunters in England, Scotland, Germany, Australia. So we kind of compare notes. We compare game laws. Sometimes I do it with a particular breed of dogs. Let's say the Small Munsterlander. I've done a couple episodes of those with a breeder who knows their business, who is early in the program. And we'll break down that breed. And I'll ask him all the questions like if I was looking for that breed.
Ron:
So I kind of put myself on the client side of the question. I might know the answer to a lot of questions. When somebody says, "Well, what are you looking for in a dog?" or how big of a dog, male, female, I know what I like. But when I interview people like that, I try to give them the questions that people are thinking, that the listeners are thinking, without being too expert.
Ron:
And I guess, Bill, what I mean by expert, in my background, in the dog world, if there's a level of expertise I have, for about 25 years, I judged for the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association. And what that means is, any pointing dog, it doesn't matter what, where it's from, if it's registered here in the States, it's registered with NAVHDA, there are hunt tests out there for puppies, intermediate, high level.
Ron:
And anywhere from six to eight weekends a year, I would fly or drive to different areas around the country. And I'm one of three judges that gives your dog an evaluation and a score based on a set of standards. So I would say in the pointing dog world, I'm kind of an expert, especially on breeds and what we're looking for in a dog. And again, of course, that's all to a standard that I'm very familiar with.
Bill Ayer:
Yup.
Ron:
So like I said, back to when I interview somebody, I don't want to come off and meet a breeder of Small Munsterlanders and explain to them the NAVHDA test. I want to ask them how they got involved with the dog, what history do they know about the dog. I might know more history about them than they do.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
So that's something people can expect. Another thing we do a lot, a lot of times, is just after a hunt. And some of those get a little sideways, let me tell you, because when we have nowhere to go and we're at the tailgate or we're camping or we're at a lodge, I'll break out the microphone and everybody's already into their... I don't know what beer number it is. I'll hold a number of beers back. But with me, I drink light beer, but I drink it in copious amounts.
Bill Ayer:
Oh yeah.
Ron:
And some of our best downloaded episodes are me and three guys just laughing our asses off, just about what happened that day or two days that we hunted. So the podcast is called The Hunting Dog Podcast, but it goes all over the place. There's always a common thread in there. I do a lot of work with Pheasants Forever and Ruffed Grouse Society, so I'll have those contingents on or those people from those groups on, and we'll talk about habitat and forest restoration and grass restoration.
Ron:
But whoever they give me to talk to is also a dog person. And I've also known for... Probably this is... For being on your podcast, this is probably as long as I've ever been serious in my whole life. Right? And it's not about hurting someone's feelings or using language. It's more like just making fun of people and dogs and what we do. I think we're almost laughable sometimes if we look at ourselves.
Bill Ayer:
Oh, I mean, we sit out there. I can't tell you how many times we sit out in the duck blind and we look at ourselves like, "What are we doing right now? We're sitting here blowing a duck call up in the air with these dogs. We're trying to kill them. It's six degrees out. It's snowing. We got up at three o'clock. We've got two hours of sleep. What are we doing?"
Ron:
Yeah. And sometimes just that giddy laughing kind of takes the pain away, doesn't it?
Bill Ayer:
Oh yeah. You kind of have to laugh at yourself every once in a while. Sure.
Ron:
Yeah.
Bill Ayer:
I'm going to put you on the spot here, Ron. So this is probably a question you get a lot.
Ron:
Sure.
Bill Ayer:
So if you had one upland dog that you had to choose from, you're a chukar hunter, a pheasant hunter, quail hunter, grouse hunter, you're hunting thick forests to open plains, what would be your go-to breed?
Ron:
Well, it's a breed that I had a lot of experience with and I don't currently own, but I would probably pick the German wirehaired pointer.
Bill Ayer:
Yup. And why is that? What are some of their attributes that make it that dog for you?
Ron:
Well, one of them is, it would be rare in... And when I say to get a dud. It's rare to see a real dud dog. Right? But their breeding philosophy from Germany and the breeding philosophies we have in NAVHDA and the German breeding clubs that are still here, there are some of those dogs that are still referred to as Deutsche Drahthaar, and that would be like if you were a member of the German parent club.
Ron:
The breed is pretty... And I mean, this is at least 51%. It's pretty or very true to type. It's going to have a durable coat. It's going to have a lot of grrr. It's going to be able to handle the different weather. It's going to be able to handle the snow. It's going to be able to handle the briars. It usually has a real good water drive, because the Germans, what they did in Germany when they developed these tests before we ever had them here in America, the things that they asked those dogs to do and selectively bred for that, it kind of guarantees you to get what you're looking for.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
Now, you can still find that with a Lab, a German shorthair. You could still find an Irish setter that hunts like an Irish setter did in the '50s. But you got to do some looking, right?
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
You really got to do some looking. Yeah. And I can tell you, I almost went back. A good, good friend of mine in North Dakota, he's always teasing me about having my Braccos. Now, I love them for their disposition as much as their hunt. Right? I think their disposition is better than their hunt. I've been very fortunate to have a couple really good ones and a couple mediocre ones. And he always wanted me to get another wirehair. Well, I did get a Wirehaired Vizsla last year, and him and I actually went in... We actually co-owned the dog. And so, I kind of got back into the wirehair, but not the German wirehair.
Bill Ayer:
Okay. That's awesome. And so, I know every hunter that I hunt with, I would say, is probably 80% or above want to have a hunting dog. Either they have one or they're looking to get one at some point in their hunting career.
Ron:
Yeah.
Bill Ayer:
What are some of the mistakes people make when choosing a breed, and then also once they find the breed they want, choosing a pup? What are some common mistakes you see people making?
Ron:
Well, I would say probably a common mistake is, not really being honest about what you're planning on doing with the dog. I mean, what happens with so many people is, let's say if you take somebody duck hunting, and then it just works out where this person, whether you work with him or he's an in-law, and pretty soon, he's like, "That's what I want." And he only saw one snapshot. He saw you and your dog, and he got to shoot some ducks. Right?
Ron:
But when he goes back home and he lives in Indiana, you're not a big duck hunter. Right? Maybe he... You could sometimes fall in love with the breed and not think about what was the breed's specialty. So if you're trying to get a specialty breed, you should kind of make sure that you're going to be able to... If you want a Lab, I think you should be a duck hunter.
Ron:
Now, of course, we know it's the most registered dog in America. Right? And probably 3% of the Labradors in this country ever put a duck in their mouth. But if you buy a Lab for hunting, you should be putting ducks in its mouth. And so, I think one of the biggest mistakes is people, they see something and they want it too quick without thinking, "What can I really do with this dog?"
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
Now, you could compete with the dog. Dog's happy as long as you give them a job. Right? So you could do that certainly with a Lab. You could do it with any dog. You can go to hunt test and retriever test and things like that. So I think some people just, they kind of make a snap decision. Another one they'll make is, and I get this a lot, my dad had them when I was little. Okay?
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
And I'm like, "Well, did you hunt with it?" No, but that was my dad's favorite dog. Like, "Okay, well..."
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
It's just like stubbing your toe. We kind of forget how much the pain is. You mentioned about your first Lab. Wasn't really well-trained. Wasn't that great. Right?
Bill Ayer:
Yeah. One I get a lot is, my neighbor has a dog that's papered. It's a hunting dog. And they've got some puppies available, and "I want to start hunting." In the back of my mind, I'm like, "Man, that's a recipe for disaster."
Ron:
Yeah. Yeah. If that would be a fall, I don't know what we would call it. It would be calling it taking the path of least resistance. Right?
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
It happens to be for sale close to me, therefore I'll be a hunter.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
Yeah. That could get people in trouble. The funny thing is about the internet now though, there's almost too much information out there now. So people can also do the opposite. They can do too much research. I've had people write me and say, "Ron, we're getting a dog," and I'd narrow it down, and they've picked a Weimaraner, a griffon, a Bracco, and a cocker spaniel. And I'm like, "You picked four different dogs. How do you want me to help you narrow it down?" Right?
Ron:
They read the breed description. There's websites that says what breed's right for me, and you plug in your acreage and the city and your ZIP code, and it says, "These dogs would be good for you." So I don't know how many people... I don't know. I might be better at telling people how to pick a dog as opposed to what mistakes to avoid, because we're all going to make mistakes.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah. I think you mentioned it and I even made the same thing. It usually takes a couple dogs before you start figuring it out.
Ron:
It does. The biggest thing is, if you can find a mentor who either is connected in some version of that breed's activity, you might not get that lucky and have the breed. Let's say you want a Brittany. Yeah, there might be a Brittany breeder within an hour from you. And if you make... You go there and make friends with him and tell him you're looking for a dog down the road and you get on his list and you kind of hang around a little. If you could get that mentor, if you can find a breeder that'll work with you, that's usually a recipe for success. But people don't always do that.
Ron:
And not every breeder... Most breeders have one, two litters a year, unless you're a big operation. And if you're a big operation, you really don't have the time to mentor somebody. And if you're a small operation, you probably got two kids and a full-time job.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah.
Ron:
But I've told people, "If you can find a breeder of the breed nearby you and establish a relationship with him, that's volumes of good right there," because you can lean on that person for a lot of advice. He's probably going to let you work with the dogs. You're going to get to actually meet the parents. For sure, you're going to get to at least meet the mom of the dogs, and make sure it's what you want. Yeah. I tell people, "If possible, fall in love with the breeder and you might just fall in love with the breed."
Bill Ayer:
Yeah. That's a great point. So my last question, take breed away from the question, what do you consider a good hunting companion, hunting dog? What are the attributes that you would consider or some must-haves?
Ron:
Well, this is a hard... It may not be hard to explain for some listeners, but it's a trait that's inherited in dogs, and I learned this through our judging program. Okay? And this is in the pointing world. So there's seven inherited traits, and one of those inherited traits is called cooperation. And what that means is that dog absolutely treats you and responds to you in a cooperative... He's not giving you a hard time. He's not arguing every step of the way with you. Sometimes even a dog, let's say, that naturally retrieves.
Ron:
Now, we know you could train him to retrieve better and to hold the bird in their mouth and make blind retrieves, but a dog that just goes out, gets something and brings it back to you. That shows a level of cooperation, as opposed to a dog that goes out and runs around in circles and goes off into a corner and eats something.
Ron:
A dog that literally... I know it sounds funny, but all puppies come when they call. Right? I mean, no one's ever seen a 12-week-old puppy that didn't get down and you go, "Here, pup, pup, pup, pup, pup!" Of course, they come running to you. How many people have had a dog that's a year, a year and a half old that you could scream till you're blue in the face and the dog's like, "Talk to my hand. My butt hurts from listening to you"?
Bill Ayer:
I got a Jack Russell I can give you that's kind of like that.
Ron:
There you go. Okay. Put her there. My wife's first two corgis. I mean, zero cooperation. Unless you gave them a treat and waved it on a string, they weren't coming to you. They were very independent dogs. You could get a very independent dog and train it to a high level of obedience to override that lack of cooperation, but that means it's work. Every time you go hunting, how many people you know have to have a collar on their dog, have to always tap them to remind them?
Ron:
I mean, a really cooperative dog, you don't need a collar on your dog. I like a collar so I never lose my dog, especially with pointing dogs. They can get into a fix, they can get into a pickle, or chase a deer and get out of range. But I mean, a really good hunting dog, you don't need an electric collar to hunt that dog. An electric collar can be a great tool, but a really cooperative dog just wants to work for you.
Ron:
And that's a hard thing to see because as dog owners, like you said, unless we're on our second or third dog and you're like going, "Wow, this dog is easy. This dog was just so much easier to train." So some people used to use the word biddable. "Oh, this dog is very biddable. You could teach it everything." But the word I use because of my training is, the dog is very cooperative.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah. Yes.
Ron:
And so, that's my personal hallmark. I need a dog that's very cooperative.
Bill Ayer:
Got it. That's a great point. What are the other six inherited traits?
Ron:
Well, I mean, people would... I'll break it down. Hang on a second. Let me get it right out of the book. Sorry about that. Maybe I'll need your...
Bill Ayer:
That's okay.
Ron:
Yeah.
Bill Ayer:
It's funny. We're on a topic I could talk all day about, so I got to watch the time. We got about 10 minutes left, but I could sit here and talk to you for hours.
Ron:
Yeah. Right. Right. Let me just get to the... Okay. So the traits, and I wanted to say them off the way the card is, is the dog's use of nose. So the nose is definitely a genetic trait. On our cards, we say use of nose because we're not challenging that the dog has a good or a bad nose. We're just trying to see how well he used it that day.
Ron:
So the dog's nose, the dog's search, the dog's water, and water being its ability to take water as another type of terrain, just simply go in and swim a couple times, and then later on, would do some duck work in the water. The pointing instinct, which is very obviously, that's inherited pointing. The tracking, which when we talked about the German breeds, they're famous for their tracking. You talk about not wasting game, the way they do in Europe. And then the desire to work. Some people say desire or some people say energy, but the inherited trait, we refer to it as desire. And the last one is cooperation.
Bill Ayer:
Got it. Very good. Well, Ron, it's been awesome talking with you. Maybe one day we could walk a field and shoot some birds behind some good dogs. Would be awesome.
Ron:
That would be nice. We almost ran into each other. We were in the same state for a little bit, weren't we?
Bill Ayer:
Yeah, we were. But one day, we'll have to do it. We're right here by the Owyhees, great chukar hunting. I don't know how much of that you've done, but if you ever want to make a pass through Idaho, or I got buddies in Nevada. They're big-time chukar hunters. We could go do that too.
Ron:
Well, Bill, I'll hold you off till 2023 because 2022 is going to go on a bad knee, and then I'm going to get it fixed next winter, so then I'll be able to chase a chukar with you.
Bill Ayer:
Yeah. That's not for the faint of heart.
Ron:
No, or for the old guys like me.
Bill Ayer:
There you go. Well, Ron, I really appreciate it. I'm looking forward to seeing more episodes or hearing more episodes of The Hunting Dog Podcast. It's been a joy having you on the Slayer Podcast, and we'll just go ahead and leave it there, and you have a great day. It's about four o'clock, so you should be ready for that beer almost.
Ron:
I am. You know what, I'm going to bump it. It's 10 minutes early.
Bill Ayer:
There you go.
Ron:
All right, Bill.
Bill Ayer:
I appreciate it. Thank you.
Ron:
You bet.