Episode 11: E-scouting for elk season

If you haven't filled your elk tag yet this season, Steve Raudenbush can teach you a thing or two. 

Steve and his brother, Jake, are the guys behind Mtn2Coast Outdoors. You've probably seen some of their hunting videos on YouTube. The duo are obsessed with hunting the backcountry of the West for elk, black bear and deer. Even when it's a pain in the rump, Steve films their hunts — which means he catches all the wild moments and amazing shots on camera. 

Steve and Jake spend the autumn months chasing bugles any chance they get. To make it happen, Steve Raudenbush spends hours analyzing hunting data, compiling spreadsheets and prioritizing zones for out-of-state tags. After he's locked in his hunting zone, Raudenbush spends even more time e-scouting and, of course, making spreadsheets to prioritize hunting spots. The hard work pays off with meat in the freezer for both Steve and Jake … like the two bull elk they bagged on public land in five days, or the two black bears they took the first night of a hunt. 

The Raudenbush brothers didn't grow up in a hunting family, so what these adult-onset hunters know about e-scouting, tracking and slaying big game comes from videos and podcasts like this one. 

In this episode of The Slayer Hunting Podcast, Steve Raudenbush wows Slayer Calls' Bill Ayer and Tommy Sessions with scouting and elk hunting tips from his stories in the backcountry — proving that every hunter still has something more to learn.

Connect with this episode's guest, Steve Raudenbush from Mtn2Coast Outdoors:

- YouTube channel

- Instagram

- Facebook

- Mtn2Coast Outdoors website

- Video: Slaying two bull elk

- Video: Taking two black bears

Get ready to bag your own elk with these articles:

- The top 5 mistakes elk hunters make

- 4 hot weather elk hunting tips

- Elk hunting tips for beginners: The do's and don'ts

- Inside the hunting pack: Elk season essentials

- Tips for choosing your first elk call

Connect with us on Instagram and Facebook and subscribe to our YouTube channel to feed your obsession between episodes.

Transcript

Bill Ayer (00:00):

Hey, all. Welcome to the Slayer Podcast. I'm your host, Bill Ayer, owner of Slayer Duck Calls, a company founded on family heritage, unrivaled quality craftmanship, and an uncontrollable obsession for hunting. Let's get to it.

Tommy Sessions (00:13):

All right, everybody. Tommy Sessions with Slayer Calls. We're here today with Bill, the owner, the man of Slayer Calls, founder, and also with Steve Raudenbush with Mountain2Coast Outdoors. If you guys have been looking at our Instagram lately, you've probably seen Steve's content on Instagram. Go over, check him out. I went back and looked, he's been putting out some pretty sweet stuff, reviews on some knives, on equipment, but that's not what we're here to talk to him about today. Steve, actually, is probably one of the most down and gritty hunters that I've actually seen. You see a lot of these guys on Instagram and everything that are shooting 400 class bulls. Well, that's not Steve. Look on his wall behind him, if you can. Not saying that you're not shooting those bulls, man. I mean, that's not a big on you, but you're a meat hunter. It's hunting, and that's where you're at.

Steve Raudenbush (01:08):

Yeah. First and foremost, for me, is to go in the freezer, horns come second. Definitely, we're the kind of guys that whatever we call in, if it's legal, we're taking the shot and putting meat in the freezer, for sure.

Bill Ayer (01:22):

You introduce yourself, Steve, and maybe tell us a little bit about where you grew up, how you got into hunting and what your elk seasons have looked like and how you got into it.

Steve Raudenbush (01:33):

Yeah. So, I grew up in Washington. I've lived in this town my whole life. Hunting was not something that was really in our family growing up. We were a salmon and steelhead fishing kind of family. My dad wasn't a hunter. No grandparents, nothing like that. So, for me, hunting wasn't a part of my life, really, until I joined the construction industry and met some guys that inspired me to pick it up. That was about 18 years old. So, when I was a kid, it was a lot of salmon and steelhead fishing and then, I was big into sports, baseball, football, basketball. Baseball was definitely my passion as a kid. I played a little bit of baseball in college, but school wasn't for me. I ended up bagging that and going straight to work. So, hunting for me really became big then, and really, it was just a lot of late-season cattle hunts in Western Washington because in Washington, the weather here, it rains a ton.

So, during the summer months into the fall, we're cranking like 60, 70 hours a week and being just a general laborer, pipe layer back then, I wasn't really able to take time off when I wanted to. So, for me, it was a late-season cattle hunts, like in November, December, spot and stalk and logging country, and then chasing the blacktail bucks late season as well into November and December. So, I really didn't start chasing bulls in September until three or four years ago when I moved into this different position with work that allowed me to take the time off in the fall September month, so that's where it's at. And then, from there, it's just going into an unreal addiction, man, chasing bugles any chance I get.

Bill Ayer (03:09):

So, you're a bow hunter?

Steve Raudenbush (03:11):

Yeah, man. I've always hunted elk with a bow, cows here. Like I was saying early or late season. And then, I have hunted blacktail bucks with a rifle. I mean, those deer are so hard to sneak up on, especially in Washington. It's like a jungle here, but I definitely have been building points in states like Utah and Colorado and Nevada to chase some of those mule deer with my dog here soon, looking forward to that.

Tommy Sessions (03:37):

Were the elk here chasing as a younger guy, was that Roosevelt's or were you hunting? For the cow hunts?

Steve Raudenbush (03:48):

Always Roosevelt's. Okay. I have not hunted Rocky Mountain elk in this state. Washington's a bit goofy. When you pick your tag, you have to pick east or west and basically, that line is the Roosevelt Rocky Mountain side, so you got to pick one or the other. I live on the West Coast, and the other thing with the east side tags is it's a spike only unless you draw, and to draw a tag in Washington is one in a million. So, I always chase Roosevelt elk no matter what. I mean, we have great over-the-counter hunting in this state. I know it gets a bad reputation, for sure. Which is fine with me, because that just mean it's more elk for me to chase, but we have some killer Roosevelt hunting here on the Coast, a ton of bulls and they're super aggressive. I mean, when they answer, they're coming. They're not trying to usually circle you and play that game. They want a piece of action, usually, so that's pretty cool.

Tommy Sessions (04:39):

So, like I said before, the Mountain2Coast Outdoors, the owner of that, what do you have to do with that? And what is it?

Steve Raudenbush (04:49):

Yeah. So, it started out was just a place for Jake and I, my brother, it's the two of us, to share our hunting and steelhead fishing adventures in one spot. Because before, it was just theme on Instagram, sharing everything in one area, and I kind of felt like it'd be better if Jake and I both had a spot to share everything in one area for people to see. And I wasn't a social media guy until three or four years ago. I never had Facebook or any of that stuff growing up. But anyway, it turned into just that, started out as just that, as a place to share stuff and then, it turned into... Got inspired by other guys out there, like born and raised, Andrew Spike and other guys, Brian Call, watching their stuff on YouTube, that really inspired me to start wanting to carry a camera on some of our hunts. And when I did, I learned that I have a big passion for it. I really enjoy trying to capture these hunts on film and then, the editing process and all that. I mean, I'm definitely not good at it by any means. I'm self-taught and learning on the fly, so I look forward to upgrading that as I go, but it's just grown and grown and grown. I just am addicted to it. I love gathering it and sharing it with other people.

Tommy Sessions (06:08):

Yeah. Those videos that you have on Instagram... I mean, I know you say that you're not very good, but they're pretty sweet. I saw some of your bear videos. I think it was last year's Idaho elk hunt that you were on. What was it? Two bulls in two and a half days or three days or whatever it is. Pretty awesome to capture those moments.

Steve Raudenbush (06:29):

I appreciate it. It's a challenge. Lots of times, I don't feel like dealing with it, when you're out there trying to seal the deal, but sticking to it and actually getting that stuff, it's pretty neat to go back through and share with family and friends and then people that enjoy it like you guys and other hunters, which is awesome. Plus, you wouldn't believe the people that reach out, and I think the best thing about it is helping other people, because I've learned a ton from podcasts and YouTube content. It's cut my learning curve down, chasing bulls, I think a ton, like a ton. And when people reach out to me and ask me a question, if I can help them in any way, it feels good to help other people, and I really enjoy that.

Bill Ayer (07:08):

Cool. Are you still hunting Washington for elk or are you coming to Idaho?

Steve Raudenbush (07:15):

This year's going to be the first year we're actually going to dedicate, my brother and I, we're going to dedicate a few days to Washington. So, our season is really short. We get 10 days to hunt a branch antlered bull. So, this year we're going to hunt the first three days in Washington, the 10th through the 12th. And then, we're coming home for two days, going back to work for two days, clean up the mess and then, I'm coming back to Idaho. I got 12 days set aside. We both have tags in the same zone, a new zone. This is our third year in Idaho, different zone every year. As you guys know, the tag allocation process has changed in Idaho, which has definitely made it a challenge for a non-resident hunter like myself. But I spend a ton of time on all the platforms doing research and probably way too analytical, but I have my own spreadsheets zone by zone by a zone.

 And within that zone, I have units broken down on my priority list, that this is option 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 through six and which unit in that zone is open area I want to be in. And when the time comes to get a tag, when it's my turn, I go down my list and the first one that's available, that's the one I get. And then, even from there, I jump into every return tag sale. So, I actually just switched my tag and my brother's tag in this last return sale from the one I got in December to another zone.

Bill Ayer (08:35):

That's interesting. So, maybe you took your fifth or sixth pick, but then on the leftover or returns, you got your second or third pick.

Steve Raudenbush (08:45):

I got my sixth option in December sale. I was like number 17,000 in line and on the return tag sale, I got my second choice, which I'm super pumped about that. And I also exchanged my deer tag for what I would consider to be one of the best over-the-counter units in Idaho, personally, from the information I've gathered.

Bill Ayer (09:08):

Just for the people listening, do you do that as a group so that when you switch, your brother comes with you?

Steve Raudenbush (09:13):

So, they don't allow a group. Unfortunately, I think that's my biggest complaint with the Idaho thing, is if you kill a bull on your own, it's pretty big feat to pack that thing out by yourself, so it would be nice if they'd allow us to apply as a group, but they don't. Jake and I have just, on the day, the return tag sales come out, we literally meet at a wherever we can get service together, we both are on the phone. We call it the same exact time, so if one of us gets through, the other guy's getting through right around the same time and we switch like that. We're a team, selfless, but we're a team. We go together.

Tommy Sessions (09:49):

Yeah. That's how we did the second tag, because I hunt archery and rifle in Idaho. And so, we'd have to get a second tag for that and that's through the non-resident, but it'd be on the second draw you're talking about, and it was same thing. Buddy and I would be on the phone together, we'd be, "What about this unit? What about this unit? All these ones are gone, hit this one." So, it's about the most stressful two hours of your life, waiting for that tag to come out, wondering if you're going to get it or not.

Bill Ayer (10:17):

You and Jesse do that?

Tommy Sessions (10:22):

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Bill Ayer (10:23):

That's awesome.

Steve Raudenbush (10:24):

One thing I want to say is anyone that does listen to this podcast, whatever tag you can get in Idaho, just get it. I mean there's elk everywhere. That's all I got to say. Don't worry about it. I mean, I get hung up on certain zones and all that stuff for sure too, but man, I've picked up tags where I was like, "This place is-"

Bill Ayer (10:43):

We're going to have to cut that out. There's no elk in Idaho. [inaudible 00:10:46].

Tommy Sessions (10:46):

The out-of-state tags go too fast as it is, let's go backwards. They went to Canada, Wyoming and Colorado. They're gone. Even Nevada and Utah, they're out.

Steve Raudenbush (11:05):

Let's be honest. The real issue is all the people moving there. I mean, our stuff's capped. We only get so many tags every year. You got a lot of resident hunters now that are part of the problem.

Tommy Sessions (11:17):

Yeah. I can't say it's a problem. It's helped my business but at the same time, it's gotten really crowded. Well, I guess your comment, if you go back a bit, about there's elk everywhere, is actually a little breath of fresh air because I had to change units. I didn't have to, but I did, change units this year from Southern Idaho over to East Idaho and man, it's a different ball game. The country is completely different. It looks a lot the same, but it's a hundred percent different and the elk are different. I haven't been into the rut yet. I haven't been into archery hunting yet, but it gets you down. I've been out scouting. Last night, I was out scouting, riding dirt bikes until like nine o'clock at night, roll back in and it's like, "Man, we can see some rubs from last year, but no new rubs are going yet. No new real sign." And it's like, "Gosh. There's elk there, but where the heck are they?" They're ghosts? That kind of leads us in. I know you have a spreadsheet and I know that's how you pick it. And then also, on the luck of the draw, if you will, for what you get. But once you get that, what's your routine or how do you plan that?

Steve Raudenbush (12:40):

So, for me, this might sound cliche, but Jake and I are always looking for the deepest, darkest hole we can find that we don't think many people would even consider going into. I mean, that's the first thing I look for. I look for how much road access is there? How far do I got to go to get away from a road? We look for areas where, really, that there is no roads. Maybe there might be... We have e-bikes, so we'll look for areas where you can take a dirt bike or an e-bike. We'll park our truck and then, sometimes we'll ride our bikes in or push them in 10 miles, eight miles, whatever it may be, set them there and then, from there, we'll go three or four miles on foot into a drainage with no trails, no road system, nothing.

 So, from there, what I'll do is I'll put together five or six, what I would call hunt plans in a zone. This is area 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, so if we pull into an area on night one and there's four trucks there, we're not even going to park and get out. We're turning around, we're going to the next spot. So, we have a list and we stick to that list. We don't waste any time until we get to a spot where there's nobody else and then, off we go. And we hunt out of our backpack, so last year, for example, day one, we went in with six days' worth of food and a spike camp, and it's extremely heavy. It's probably a bit overkill, but we don't want to leave elk if we find elk. So, what I feel like has really helped us a ton is just pushing myself to go where I would consider most people not wanting to go.

Tommy Sessions (14:18):

And that's all found off at e-scouting then, because I mean, how far is it from you to your unit this year that you're hunting?

Steve Raudenbush (14:26):

12 hours, about.

Tommy Sessions (14:27):

So, you're not ripping over there in an evening or...

Steve Raudenbush (14:31):

No.

Tommy Sessions (14:31):

You just go.

Steve Raudenbush (14:32):

So, I use all the platforms, GOHUNT, onX and then, Google Earth. For a guy, in my opinion, looking for just one platform, I would highly recommend GOHUNT because I think it's 150 bucks, you're an insider member. You got all the maps, you got everything you could need filtering 3.0, strategy articles, all that stuff, so that's where I would start. And then, I bounce back and forth between onX and Google Earth to dive deep into the 3D maps, especially on Google Earth, to put my plan together. And I mean, it's honestly something I do. This might sound crazy, but almost every night, really, after my kids go to bed and I got my own time to decompress for the day, I'm always digging and digging and looking at drainages and looking at north slopes and benches and burns and beetle kills. And there's a guy out there by the name of Mark [inaudible 00:15:28] that has a great online class for guys that hunt out of state that I picked up a ton of information from on things that just blew my mind. It's made a huge difference for us, especially living in Washington. We travel. 2021, we were in Idaho and Montana. Colorado, we're going there. Wyoming, Montana, everywhere, so we rely heavily on e-scouting.

Tommy Sessions (15:53):

Nice. So, one thing that I'll give a little heads up to people and it's kind of a fun deal too, but go rob your kids V.R., or if you have V.R.whatever, and hop on Google Maps on a V.R. and go e-scout on a V.R. It's pretty sweet. It actually is like you're flying over the unit right there and you're in it. A little tech tip there for you.

Steve Raudenbush (16:17):

Never thought of that one.

Bill Ayer (16:21):

I kind of dig that, Tommy. Do you get a better feel for the steepness of the terrain or not as steep as it may look on Google Earth?

Tommy Sessions (16:28):

I kind of think so, because just for instance, last night, I'm up riding my dirt bike in this unit and it goes anywhere from 6,200 feet up to about almost 9,000. And if you're looking at onX or GOHUNT or any of the platforms out there, you're like, "Oh, that's not too bad." Yeah. The lines on the map, those are pretty close together and they look like it's pretty steep, but I'd probably do it. And then, you hop onto that V.R. and you go over it and you're like, "Yeah, this is pretty brutal. I'm not hunting that." Or maybe an animal's probably not going to be [inaudible 00:17:08] stuff. That's not a bedding area, no way that that's going to be... They may go through there, but they're not sleeping there, that's for sure. They're going to be tumbling down the mountain.

Bill Ayer (17:16):

Yeah. I look at that too, because I used to just only rely on Google Earth and then, you show up there and it's like, "Oh, my God. This is a cliff." It's not even a wall, it's basically a cliff. Maybe some mountain goats there but... So yeah. Now, I overlay that with a topographic so I can see what reality looks like and I've learned to look at topographic maps and see what I'm able to do and I'm probably not going to want to hike on. But if you could do V.R., that would be pretty sweet, where it gives you that topographic

Tommy Sessions (17:49):

Yeah. Whoever's out there with GOHUNT or onX or whatever and you guys come out with the V.R. platform, just remember me.

Steve Raudenbush (17:58):

Another thing I'd like to touch on, if you guys don't mind, is that GOHUNT has the degree. You can set your slope, what degree slope you want to be looking at and which direction slope. So north, southeast, west, northwest, all the slope... You select which ones you want to see, what elevation band you're looking for and it highlights those areas green. So, it eliminates a lot of fluff, if you will. You know what I mean? Very handy.

Tommy Sessions (18:24):

So, I've been looking at that lately and I don't know, it's kind of hard... Again, that goes back to what we were talking about, with the topo maps and that, if I remember right, it's like zero to five and then anyways, so on. And it goes up to 35 and up on your degrees of slope, I mean, when you're looking for that stuff, you're like, "I'm not even going to touch a 35 and up and I'm not going to touch a..." I mean, zero is probably good because that's a bedding area maybe or whatever. Anything over a certain degree, you're saying that's not even close, so you click that off or you do... How do you-

Steve Raudenbush (19:00):

Exactly. Yeah. I don't even look at zero degree, to be honest with you. I've never found an elk in a flat spot in my life, so I don't highlight zero to five and I don't highlight anything over 25 degrees. So, I'm going from five to 15 into that 20 range. And then, I personally have found all my elk, not all of them, majority of my elk, three quarters of the way up from the bottom of a drainage. So, if the drainage just stay at 5,000 and the highest ridge is at 8,500, I'm targeting that 7,000 band. And from that, once I kind of narrow in my elevation, I'm looking for those little freaking benches man, those little finger benches. Anything that has a little wider contour line on a map, it doesn't look like much, but last year, I promised I got a pin on the spot where I shot in my bull. So, it's crazy, just those little wide spots, they hang out there and it's proven itself to work for us pretty much three years in a row, and I live by it now.

Tommy Sessions (20:00):

That's awesome. Those are great tips. I mean, you don't want to give away everything, but again, you're getting into some pretty nasty stuff, it sounds like. So, you're probably not going to be bumping into everybody out there. So, let's see, three years ago, 2019, that was your first year in Idaho?

Steve Raudenbush (20:18):

Say 20. 20 was our first year. Yeah. 20 was our first year, and that was really steep learning curve, I would say. So, like I was telling you early on, never hunted bulls, really hunted cows only, and I love to call. We live by the calling. We've probably called too much. Every 100 or 200 yards, we're trying to locate a bull with our call. So, we picked up our tags and we headed over for a 10-day trip, pulled in and loaded up our backpack. And that night, we hiked up the bottom of this drainage, about three miles off-trail, set up a spike camp, little seek outside Cimarron. And we had eight days of food with us. And the very first night we were there, right before dark, we were literally setting up our spike camp and wrestling around with the teepee and a bull founded off like 300 yards above us.

 I don't know why or what, if it could hear us or if it was just that fired up, but that night, we stopped setting up our little spike camp, grabbed the bows, off we went. Came up from the bottom and long story short, that bull winded us, and that was the theme of that whole trip. It took me a long time. Well, not a long time, but that whole trip to figure out that you do not want to approach any bull from the bottom. It never worked out. We had opportunity after opportunity from coming up from the bottom, they always see you or smell you or whatever before you're going to get a shot. The brush is always in the way. It was just something that we had to figure out the hard way, man. We got a lot of failures before we were able to finally fill one of our tags on... It was day eight, about one o'clock in the afternoon, we finally filled the tag. So yeah, man. It was a freaking battle, man.

 I had to Leukotape every single toe, all my heels. I mean, it was like... I took my boot off and it was like a brick of Leukotape. That trip made me realize that I thought I was in pretty good shape, but not good enough. So, it turned into not only never approaching a bull from the bottom, always trying to beat on its level or above it. No matter what it takes to get there, don't be lazy because it's not going to work otherwise, in my opinion. It's an all year thing, man, you got to stay in shape. You got to eat good, get some exercise in and shoot your bow all year. I just feel like that's what it takes. I mean, that's what you got to do.

Tommy Sessions (22:45):

That goes back to, if you guys listened to our podcast with Joe McCarthy, we talked a lot about our calls and the names of our calls and the perseverance that, I mean, it's the name and game. You got to keep on going. That's something I think too that the Archangel's going to help out a lot with is sound and the projection of sound, and the travel. Now, it's not going to say it's not going to go a mile or anything like that, or two miles or whatever. People, don't give me twisted on that, but that acrylic insert in there, I think you're going to get a little more ranged out of it now. But that doesn't mean don't keep calling every 200 yards because that 200 yards might be where that bull's in range and you hear it and you keep on trucking.

Steve Raudenbush (23:30):

I got a little quick story about that right there. For example, that same year, that first year we went to Idaho, the day that I killed the five point, a date or whatever day it was, Jake went off to do his business. It was like 11 o'clock in the morning, and we're on this ridge, ripping bugles across the drainage, looking for an answer. We finally get an answer. This bull happened to be out in a little avalanche shoot that I was able to glass across the draw and pick him up after bugle. So, dropped a pin, we circled ahead of the base and just a little four-point rag bull, but we got in tight on him and he would not come in just to one of us calling. So, we had learned earlier in the trip that my brother would be bugling and I was shooter and a bull would be answering.

 We had a lot of failed attempts. This bull would answer and Jake would rip off and we were trying to seal the deal. Almost every time, another bull would come in silent and disappeared. You'd be like, "Oh, my God. Where'd this bull come from?" But that bull was coming to see, just out of curiosity, what was going on. So, that bull that we saw in the avalanche shoot on that day, wouldn't come into just one of us calling, so Jake and I split up about a hundred yards and our plan was, "All right, you ripped the bugle. I'm going to wait 30, 40 seconds. I'll chuckle back at you or I'll bugle back. You bugle. We'll pretend like we're two bulls." Well, it worked. That bull, that little four-point rag bull, he came in out of curiosity just to see what was going on and I ended up getting a shot at 57 yards, perfectly broadside. And I thought I smoked that bull, but I think I ended up just shooting right underneath him and I missed him, unfortunately, but that's a tactic that I would say people should really consider using, man. A lot of those bulls, all those 5-point, 4-point younger bulls, possibly a mature bull, they want to know what's going on. So, they might not make any noise, but if you can trick them that way, it's worked for us.

Tommy Sessions (25:26):

We talked about that with Joe also, for when elk are talking back and forth. If two bulls are fighting, it could be a satellite, swoop-ins, snag a cow. They say that almost every bull has an opportunity to breed a cow out there and I think, usually, it comes from, just like you said, a silent bull coming in, snatch a lady, take her off while the big dude's fighting another bull or protecting his heroine and that's the way it is. But I mean, animals are animals and they want to see what's going on. I think Joe's comment was a fight at 6th & Main and the bar clears out, and 6th & Main's downtown Boise at one of the bars, and it clears it out and here comes everybody wanting to watch the fight. And that's the same with elk. They want to watch the fight, and how do they know that? It's either from raking, from the antler cracking or from bugles going off, so they know.

Steve Raudenbush (26:25):

Yeah, it's definitely a tactic people should be employing or trying. It definitely works. And back to that, the bull I ended up killing was right below where we located that little four point on the other side of the drainage. So, at that moment in the morning, he wasn't ready to answer, but two hours later, he fired off on the same side we were on, right below us. And we dropped down into the drainage up the other side and we killed that bull 19 yards frontal. So, don't be afraid to call, man. There's nothing better than a bull coming in screaming.

Bill Ayer (26:59):

Yeah. So, tell us about the setup on that bull that you killed, the five point. So, you drop down the drainage, you get up over to where he's at, at the same level. Were you above him? And then, how did the setup go with your brother and maybe tell us about the sequence and how that went down?

Steve Raudenbush (27:13):

Yeah. So, I had just shot and missed that four point at 57. Honestly, I was kind of down in the dumps bit, a little frustrated with myself. Day eight, we've been grinding, man, eating dehydrated food, sleeping on the ground, just a little beat up. But anyway, we just kept working our way back out towards the drainage into those avalanche shoots, calling. Bumped two cows that were bedding, made it like another three, 400 yards, tripped another bugle and the bull, that five point, back across the drainage ripped off. So, again, we broke out our phones, looked at the map and figured out where we thought he would be bedded at, dropped a few pins. And then, we dropped down into the drainage, up the other side and there, off to the right was where we thought he was bedding, where we thought we heard him, there was another little side finger at the left.

 So, we went up that side finger where the wind would be sucking down to make sure we were good. We used that to get up to about where we thought we were on the same level and then, we started side hilling in. So, we were in a bit of an old burn, a lot of blow down, a lot of snags. And we were side hilling through there, and we were just calling, nothing. Move other a hundred yards, rip another bugle and this bull finally answered back and we were on the same side, and we were about on the same level. I was pretty happy, pretty confident with that. I felt good about that. So, we kept working our way until we thought we were inside that a hundred yard window, like that classic. We felt good about getting in tight. We didn't want to push it too much.

 So, I got into where I felt like I had a few good shooting lanes. Jake had dropped back about 40 yards behind me and started raking and calling and that bull was answering. Every time Jake would rip one off, that bull would cut him off or vice versa. Jake would cut him off and he was coming in quick. So, I knocked an arrow and I don't know how the elk do it, but he was just on top of me like fat. So, I see him coming probably at 30 yards. It was thick. I had drawback. I get to a full draw and all I could think in my head was, "Just breathe. Just breathe, just breathe, just breathe. And if he comes into this window, it's top pan, just let it go." And I'm holding my pin in that gap and he's coming frontal, straight in on me, moving his head, shit's breaking, because he's coming in so fast.

 It was 19 yards. He gets into that window and I just sent one off and I hit him frontal, right above the brisket in that pocket, clean pass through, my arrow stuck in the tree behind him. He whirled and bolted, and I stood there in shock because it just happened so fast. I was jacked, and Jake heard my arrow go off, so he comes running up and we're hugging and high fiving and the classic just, you've been grinding for that long. You're just on cloud nine. So, we sat down and gave it, I don't know, probably a good 45 minutes before we even moved. Broke out some food, had some coffee, just chilled.

 We grabbed my arrow out of the tree and we start walking, make it like 20, 30 yards and not finding, really, any blood and I honestly started having that doubt, like, "Man. Did I miss him? I mean, I know I didn't miss him. My arrow had blood on it, but did I hit him way too high or... There's no way, it was so close." And then, I'm like, "Jake, okay, stay right here." I stuck my arrow in the ground. I'm like, "Stay right here. This is the only blood we'd found. I'm just going to walk ahead another 15 yards, see if I can find anything." I made it like 10 yards and I saw him piled up and man, it was on. I was just jazzed. Cloud nine, man. First Idaho bull, D.I.Y., just as happy as could be.

 And it was like, I don't know, four o'clock or so when we recovered him and the work began, they would say, broke him down, hung all the meat up. We made one trip out that night with everything except the hindquarters, got back to our truck. I don't know, it was like 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock at night, slept at night back at the truck. The next morning, we bombed back in and grabbed the last two hindquarters and got back to the truck and stopped at a little tiny campground on the way out of town, took the first shower we'd taken in 10 days and made the journey home, man.

Tommy Sessions (31:44):

What I love about that story, and it seems to happen on every single story when we're talking to people, and it doesn't matter if it's a podcast or if it's out at a show or if it's whatever. But if you talk to people about their first bull or the last bull they've killed or anything, the emotion in their voice, the smile, the giddiness of... And it's anybody, is just amazing. That, just like you're saying, you're like, "This bull come 19 yards." And it's like, if this comes out on a video, you watch your face, I mean, it's just like you're back in that moment, reliving it, and I can remember every bull I've shot and it's the same exact way. And it's like a little kid in the candy story. You're super jacked, and I mean, I think that's what keeps driving me back into the woods, back to scout more, back to do more calling, back to... It's just every bit of it. It's like that feeling. It just never goes away, and it's like maybe a little shot of... I've never done drugs, but maybe it's like a shot of heroin or something. It's like chasing that high all the time.

Steve Raudenbush (32:54):

Yeah, man. There's nothing better in my book. I love every second of it. The whole process. It's great.

Bill Ayer (33:01):

I had that same thought as you're telling the story. You're a pretty laid back guy and you started telling the story and the endorphins started kicking off and I think there is something chemical about it, because in that moment, I think there's a lot of things going on with your chemistry that is probably very similar to doing drugs and probably what drives us to go back there.

Tommy Sessions (33:24):

It's a lot better than doing drugs, I could tell you that. I was a cop for a while and man, those are terrible, but I'll tell you what? Elk hunting is on another level.

Bill Ayer (33:36):

Yeah. So, why don't you tell us, now you got the elk down, you and your brother, and both of you guys are celebrating and that. So, now tell us about how do you ensure that you get all the meat out of there and make sure it doesn't spoil and what did that look like, getting it out of there?

Steve Raudenbush (33:52):

So, we use the gutless method, like most probably do. So, first thing you do, break the bull down, get the hide off the quarters, get the meat hanging. We moved the meat over to a... I was telling you earlier on that there was a little drawer to the left. So, I hiked over there real quick, hung up and hung up a pole on the tree real quick, and we hung all of our quarters there, get the meat cooling down in that drawer as quick as possible. The other thing we do is they're expensive, yes, but we have some pretty big YETI coolers that we've invested in over the years. We didn't buy them all at once. We'd get one this year, get one the following year, whatever.

 So, when we drove over to Idaho, we hit the last gas station near our area and we loaded that thing up with ice, 15, 20 bags. And so, when we get back with the first load of meat, any water that has accumulated in the cooler, which is very little and those things, they work really well, drain the water out. And then, I have ice on the meat right away. So, the meat's the most important thing. I feed my family the elk meat all year long, we process our own meat in the garage. We grind it all, package it all, clean it all up. That's the main reason why we go do this, is for the meat for sure.

Tommy Sessions (35:05):

So, when you get it back to the cooler, I've heard different things on this, but when you go to put it on ice, do you worry about that meat getting wet from the ice, melting the ice, sitting in any kind of water? Do you keep the plugs open on the bottom? How do you go about doing that until you get home and you can get it hung up and...

Steve Raudenbush (35:27):

We always leave the plug cracked, so if there is any water, it can slowly drip out. And then, out of the back it, the tailgate of the truck, but what we do is we take 2x4s, and we line the bottom with a little bit of space in them on end. So, the four inch side up or three and a half inch side up, if you're a construction guy. They're not really four inches and all that, and that creates a little bit of a cradle. So, the meat's still on ice, but it's definitely not sitting in any water. The water's well below the meat and then, we just pack ice around that and obviously, gravity does its thing. When it melts, it comes out of the plug that's pulled from the cooler and out the back of the truck it goes on the way home, or even if it's sitting at camp for a few days. I mean, when we killed Jake's bull last year in Idaho, we killed his bull on day three and we packed out the first load. And that night, day four, his meat was sitting in the cooler for four days before we got my bull out and drove home, so that method has worked really well for us. We've never lost any meat, never had an issue with meat spoiling or anything like that.

Tommy Sessions (36:29):

Have you ever tried dry ice?

Steve Raudenbush (36:31):

I haven't. I've thought about it, but I have not. This year, I was thinking about freezing some one gallon water jugs.

Tommy Sessions (36:38):

I use the water jugs and I put them on the bottom and then, the ice on top of that, but I've always wondered about dry ice and how that... I've never used it. I'm just curious if anybody...

Bill Ayer (36:47):

Yeah, I've used it in the past. You got to be careful with it because it'll freeze your meat probably more so than you want to. So, you got to learn your cooler and how much you need. I was like, "Oh, yeah. Give me 10 pounds. Throw that in there." And then, you got a big ice block of meat in there. So, with my YETI cooler, about a pound and a half is good and it keeps it nice and a temperature that you don't have to worry about, and you don't have to worry about the water.

Steve Raudenbush (37:13):

How long did it last, Bill? A pound and a half? Just curious.

Bill Ayer (37:17):

See, that's the thing, you're only going to get about a day and a half, two days out of it before it goes away if you don't have any other ice or any other way to cool it.

Tommy Sessions (37:26):

What if you mix that with ice, like if you were to take and do a triple combination, like the one pound jugs and then, the dry ice and then, ice on top of that, is that just overkill or is it like... And this is for you, Bill, is-

Bill Ayer (37:42):

Yeah. Yeah. I've never used the both in combination, so I don't know. I've always hung my meat in a nice, cool shady spot and never had an issue. Now, if it's 85 degrees out, then I usually will spend a day to haul it to a shop. Now, you don't have that luxury because you're in Washington, so you got to figure out a different solution, but I'll drive down the mountain to find a butcher shop. And I usually do that prior to, if I'm hunting a new area in Idaho, I find where the butcher shops are, so if I do have to make that drive, I know exactly where they're at and when they're open.

Steve Raudenbush (38:18):

Yeah, man. We've tried that and we can never find anybody that's willing to take our meat. Yeah, we haven't had luck. Maybe it's just the zones we've been in. It hasn't worked out, but even this year, man, I've called some shops in this area and they won't take it unless they get to process it, type deal, and we like to process our own stuff. Maybe we're weird about it, but yeah, we rely on those schoolers a ton. Stuff sits in there for days.

Bill Ayer (38:43):

Well, so that first bull, first year you hunted, what day was it on in September and what was the weather like?

Steve Raudenbush (38:50):

The day that I killed the bull?

Bill Ayer (38:51):

Yeah.

Steve Raudenbush (38:52):

I want to say it was 22nd, and it was your classic September weather. Cool in the morning, probably forties or so, and then mid sixties during the day, kind of just fat cloud cover. Not really rainy, not super sunny, just pretty good hunting weather, really.

Tommy Sessions (39:11):

So that was three years ago or two years ago, I guess, then last year you guys came back, and this is the video I saw last year, you guys went two for two and is it two days or three days?

Steve Raudenbush (39:22):

So, Jake killed on day three. I killed on day five. Technically, it was five days, but we killed two bulls in two days, which was incredible, man. So yeah, that was another new zone to us. I'm not going to say the zone, but it was definitely a zone that quote, unquote, "has a ton of pressure" from what you would find or hear from anybody out there about how many people hunt it. They give out a lot of tags, but I used to look at that, honestly, as a bad thing. Like, "God, there's going to be a lot of people in there." But if you think about it, as glass half full kind of guy, they give out a lot of tags because there's a healthy population. That's how I see it. So, again, that's why I kind of grind on that east guide and I'm like, "Okay, there's going to be a lot of people, where are most people going to access these areas from?"

 And I look for those areas that I don't think people are going to want to go into. And again, it paid off that year. So, we showed up, we worked a half day. We drove all night, set up camp until two o'clock in the morning, a base camp, slept for maybe three hours and loaded up our packs and we hiked into this drainage two miles up a trail. And then, it was about three miles from where Jake killed his bull and then, another mile before I killed my bull. So, we were six miles from our base camp area on foot and day one, man, we got in there and we made it about three miles in, about a mile off the trail, and we had a freaking giant bull going off, man. He could hear us breaking sticks and he was just going crazy.

 And so, I think if you watch the video, you'll see Jake has his pack on. He takes his pack off and we're not calling. We were being quiet and we were trying to get on his level and side hill through this drainage and get up with him because we'd located that he was above us. So, we get up on his level, but this bull was so fired up, we didn't even have to call. Every time he heard us moving through the timber, if we broke anything, he was just ripping, just going crazy. So, we get across the little drainage on his level, trying to side hill in and we had no idea. He came running to our noise and then saw Jake and whirled. And I never got a shot at him, but from that point on, we worked our way deeper into that drainage. And that night, we set up our spike camp, little Cimarron again, that same bull, we ended up relocating him right before dark and I called him in to 40 yards for Jake. Jake was that full draw. That bull came in, froze right behind some brush and long story short, he never got a shot on him, but it was that close to filling a tag on. I mean, this bull was a tank, like a tank.

 So, needless to say, we were all juiced up, went back to the spike camp that night and went to sleep, woke up the next morning. One of those days where we had bulls sounding off all around us all day long. It didn't matter which direction we went, we were in bulls, but we couldn't seal the deal. And the bad thing about that spot was all the main drainages on the maps, they were all bone dry. There was no water, and we only packed in three liters a piece. So, luckily on day two, one of the bulls that we got to sound off, he took us to his wallow, and I don't remember if it's in the video or not, but we got water out of that wallow for...

Tommy Sessions (42:56):

Oh, man. That's just horrible.

Steve Raudenbush (42:59):

I think it's in one of my reels on Instagram, but we dug into the bank above his wallow and found where the water was trickling out of the mountain, and I set a piece of bark in the bank and let the water run for a few minutes. And we literally would've had to leave elk that were everywhere, and I don't know how they were surviving, because that was the only water source we found in six days. But we lived off that wallow for six days and it turned out to be a blessing because day two ends, we go back to spike camp, left it in the same spot because we had elk. We were just living with the elk, and day three in the morning, we're heading off in another direction and ripping bugles like we always do every 100, 200 yards, and we have a bull coming silent. Don't get a shot at him and I'm like, "God dang, man, how many bulls are we going to run into before we get this figured out? We suck."

Tommy Sessions (43:53):

It sounds like a good problem to have though.

Steve Raudenbush (43:56):

It was a good problem to have, it seemed like everywhere we went, we were in bulls. So, we're side hilling, side hilling, and we're calling, calling and I locate another bull way above us. We're talking about what we're going to do to get up to this bull and for some reason, I look over to my left and there's another bull that's coming in silent, but didn't see me, but I saw him. So, I'm like, "Jake, Jake. There's a bull right there." I dropped back like 50, 60 yards, Jake works up in front of me a little bit further, and I start cow calling and bugling and that bull circled Jake, tried to get my wind. I ended up dropping back at a left angle below Jake, like at a 45 and that bull turned to his right and I sucked him right into Jake, and Jake shot that bull. I think it was the same thing, like 19 yards or 24 yards, ended up being another frontal shot, shot him with an iron wheel though. Same spot, clean pass through. That bull went like 10 feet, it was over. No tracking on that one, man. So yeah, that was an incredible experience as well.

Tommy Sessions (45:01):

I like how you talked about your setup up right there and how you moved as the collar. That's where a lot of people, I think, get... Maybe they get apprehensive or scared and they're like, "Oh, man, if I move, this bull's gone." But you got to think too if you were being a bull, as a caller, you're thinking as an elk would, that bull is trying to move, get your wind. You're trying to play that bull. You're kind of playing this cat and mouse game. That bull's thinking the same thing, like this elk's trying to get over here on me, I'm going to cut him off, or he's trying to do this. And so, for the people listening, think about that. Think about a bull is not just going to stand in one spot all the time and bugle. They're not going to stand on the point and bugle off that rock every time.

 They're going to be moving. As a caller with a shooter out front, don't be afraid to move and get 30 yards to the right, 30 yards to the left or whatever, or drop back another 20 or 30 to suck him in or whatever the case may be. Probably not move closer to the collar or to the shooter, but play that game with him and I think you'll get, like you said, that he just sucked right into him. Like you said, probably because you moved. If you wouldn't have moved, he may have caught that wind and played his game, not yours.

Steve Raudenbush (46:20):

Yeah. And that goes back to that first year, I was telling you, we had a lot of failed experiences and it was due to that. A lot of those Rocky Mountain elk that we've experienced, they always seemed to circle you for the wind, and Roosevelt elk, we haven't really had that issue. They come running straight in, so I've learned that you got to, in your mind as the caller, remember where your shooter's at, if you can't see him anymore. And we've had a lot better luck not being in a straight line. If you move to the right of him, 20 or 30 yards to the left of your shooter, 20 or 30 yards, that elk seems to come across your shooter at a different angle to get that wind before he'll get it, if that makes sense. That's definitely worked for us.

Tommy Sessions (47:03):

Cool. Well, continue. So, you got that bolt down and then, you're still hunting. You got another bolt to go.

Steve Raudenbush (47:12):

Yeah. So, we recovered Jake's bull quickly. We saw it fall over pretty much right in front of us. So, we broke that bull down, same method, gutless method, [inaudible 00:47:19] and broke down, same pack out system. So, we always take the head. We always [inaudible 00:47:25] them right there. And then, we take the fronts and all the loose meat, backstraps, neck meat, tender lines, all that stuff, first load and then, we just leave the hinds. So that night we packed out, got back to our base camp late. I think it was like two o'clock in the morning, got the meat in the coolers and went to sleep. And then, the next morning, we went in super light. We run the Exo packs. So, we went in with just our frames and the slippery stalkers, and we bombed straight in, grabbed the two hindquarters and bombed right back out.

 And that night we actually stayed back at base camp, took a shower. We bought a shower that we bring with us now, which is nice. Took a shower at camp, cleaned up, got some real good grub that night to re-energize. And then, next morning, we reloaded our packs on day five and we went back in. On our way back in man, just the same playbook, just working our way through those drainages, about three quarters of the way up, targeting those benches, calling and calling. And it was about 10 o'clock in the morning. We had a bull sound off and I don't know what it was, but there was this little trail that I could see that worked its way into this dark timber and I had a good feeling that bull was going to come out of that timber on that trail. So, Jake set up down below me, probably 30 yards, but it was a pretty steep slope.

 So he was, I don't know, quite a ways below me, and I got up on that trail and that bull, Jake started calling, arrow knocked. I was ranging into the timber, 40 yards was just out into the opening, so I had my 40 yard pin, was dialed in my mind, arrow knocked, and that bull came out of the timber right on that trail just like I thought he would. I lucked out on this one, turned broadside, a little quarter too, but pretty broad side. And same thing, I was full draw, just like, "Take a deep breath. Relax. Just calm down, make a good shot." And the shot broke and it hit him right behind the shoulder, clean pass through and that bull took off. I was on cloud nine.

 Again, I could not believe it that we had just literally just packed out Jake's bull and on the next day, we had an arrow and another bull. I mean, I hadn't counted my chickens yet because I'm not like that. Jake's always like, "Oh, he's good. He's down, don't worry about it. We got this bull." And I'm always a little apprehensive to do that, but we did the same. We sat down for 30, 45 minutes and gave him time. We never heard anything, so I was hoping that he had just piled up below us, and that was the case. We got up after about 45 minutes. We found some good blood, which felt really good, obviously. Never found the arrow unfortunately, but we got on some good blood. He was right there. He only made it like, I don't know, maybe 80 to a 100 yards just piled up in some blow down, and then we were back at it, man. Another bull down and off we go.

Bill Ayer (50:19):

That's awesome.

Tommy Sessions (50:20):

Yeah. Your head's happy. Your legs are not.

Steve Raudenbush (50:23):

No, man. We were pretty fucked up. Yeah. And then, on that bull, if you watch the video, we had a bear coming on us, which was pretty crazy.

Tommy Sessions (50:34):

Yeah, that's right. I did see that.

Steve Raudenbush (50:37):

Yeah. The video doesn't really do it justice because my big camera was dead, so that was just on my iPhone. But man, it was just a black bear. It wasn't a grizzly, I get that. But man, this bear was hissing at us and slobbering and I thought for sure we were going to be wrestling with a bear. It was definitely not a good feeling for a little bit.

Bill Ayer (50:58):

I didn't see that, when did it happen? When you guys were packing out or when you were gutting it?

Steve Raudenbush (51:03):

We were breaking it down, so we were almost done. We had all the quarters off of it and our packs were just about loaded, but we were finishing the head, getting the head heroed out to pack it out. And Jake looked up and that bear was out like 40 yards, so he obviously got the wind and he came in and he didn't leave, I'll tell you that. A bear did not care that we were there. It wanted that elk. It didn't come in on us. Never got to that point, but it did not leave until we left. And as soon as we got 80 yards away from the carcass, it came in and there was nothing left. It was unreal. Devoured everything. The guts, the hide. It was crazy.

Tommy Sessions (51:42):

Are you hunting grizzly country this year, in that unit that we talked about you? Do you guys have grizzlies in that one or is that far enough north?

Steve Raudenbush (51:50):

The biologist told me if we saw one, it would be rare. They're there, but there's not a lot of them. There's some resident bears, but the population's pretty clean.

Tommy Sessions (52:02):

That's good.

Steve Raudenbush (52:03):

Yeah. I don't want to dance with any of those. Where we hunted bears this year, spring bear in Idaho, we were in grizzly country, but we had guns. So, I was not as nervous.

Tommy Sessions (52:14):

Yeah. Do you guys pack anything for bears now or were you packing something at that time for bears, or was it kind of an afterthought? Like, "Oh, crap. Maybe we should now."

Steve Raudenbush (52:23):

I was packing just a 45. Not when the bear came in. I had the 45 on me the first three days because the way we do it is if Jake's shooter, Jake's shooter till he fills his tag. We don't take turns. We alternate. So, until he fills his tag, I'm calling. So, I didn't have my bow. I had a 45, but we didn't see any bears. So, on day four, I'm like, "I'm not packing this. There's no need." And then, of course, the bear comes in and I'm like, "Wow. I wish I had my pistol sitting back at camp."

Bill Ayer (52:54):

It's funny because my buddy and I both pack pistols and sometimes I get lazy. I'm like, "Man, do I really want in?" I'm like, "Hey, are you bringing yours?" He's like, "Well, I wasn't going to, are you bringing yours?" And so, we always have that conversation. Now, it's like, "I'm just going to pack mine," after hearing that story.

Steve Raudenbush (53:13):

Yeah, me too. Might just be a black bear, but man, I don't want to wrestle with one of those.

Bill Ayer (53:18):

Yeah, yeah. For sure. Well, those are great stories, man. You guys are killing it for only hunting Idaho or Rocky Mountain elk for three years, you've had a lot of success and I've talked to you in the past and look at what you're doing there on social and you're definitely putting the work in and it's one of those deals. You put the work in, usually, the results come after it. And I was telling Tommy when I was like, "Yes, he's a good dude, but I'll tell you what? Him and his brother get after it and they're not afraid to get after it and put the work in. And that's what I always...

 From the first time I started talking to him and just really appreciate people who are willing to train all year to be in the physical shape to be able to go into those dark holes, get all the meat out. Don't get back there, kill something and be like, 'I'm too tired to go back and get the rest of it. Oh my God, what do we do? We're not in shape for this.'" So, really appreciate people like you, who's willing to put the work in, willing to learn, get on podcasts, listen to them, listen to people that have done it in the past and be humble enough to not say, "Oh, I know everything." Just from couple things you said on this podcast, I've learned a lot. So, I'll never consider myself an expert in hunting because there's always something to learn.

Steve Raudenbush (54:36):

I appreciate that. We don't think we know it all, that's for sure. And it's things like this, things like you guys are doing with these podcasts. I mean it, from the bottom of my heart that we have learned everything from these outlets, podcasts and the stuff online, e-scouting and everything. So yeah, these things are incredible for sure.

Tommy Sessions (54:57):

Yeah. Absolutely. If you make it over, I know you're a little bit a way's way from myself and Bill this year, but if you make it over and hit us up, let's get together, go have dinner or whatever, or GOHUNT. So, you guys, so steelhead salmon, you just wrap it up, but do you guys waterfowl hunt too in that over Washington?

Steve Raudenbush (55:17):

No, man. We don't bird hunt. I have a 16-foot ClackaCraft. It's an older 2006 drift boat and it's pretty much not like elk, but fishing out of a drift boat, it's hard work too. So, we love chasing coastal steelhead, those big natives, 20 pound fish on light, light gear, dodging boulders and going through white water. And once elk season ends here in December, we chase elk here in December, late season, cows. And then, from then on, it's just steelhead fishing. And then now, spring bear. When spring rolls around, that's definitely going to be a lifelong trip from now on, that's for sure.

Tommy Sessions (55:57):

Sweet. Well, yeah. Get ahold of us, let us know. And anybody listening to this, go out and check out the Mountain2Coast, look at what these guys are doing. It is like Bill said and I said, these guys are grinding. It's not a weekend warrior type thing. They're living it. They're doing it, it sounds like every day after work, like you said, and it shows. So, keep up the good work. Six days, and it's September, so we're going to be out in the woods. I can't wait.

Steve Raudenbush (56:30):

Yeah, man. You guys are lucky. I got 19 days, man.

Tommy Sessions (56:34):

Well hopefully, I mean, I guess you can live vicariously through Instagram or through social or whatever and videos, but I think... Somebody posted it the other day, that Slayer's going to be on fire this year, and I do. I think we're going to see a wave of photos and social of everybody posting pictures with it because it's going to make a splash, I can promise you that.

Steve Raudenbush (56:58):

Oh, yeah. I mean, I love that YouTube, just the way that I love the flare and that mouth piece, it just fits well, and that thing is loud. It's loud. So, I can't wait to deploy that this year. It's going to be good.

Tommy Sessions (57:12):

Perfect. Well, Steve, I appreciate your time. Bill, it was awesome. Hopefully everybody took a good couple nuggets away from this because I know I did. We're going to wrap it up and go kill us some.